18 replies to this topic

[CA1]

I am begging the admin's to please keep the amazing pilots from ruining the different maps by plane whoring the entire time we are on that map (one pilot just now at 41 kills with a plane and it didn't allow us to move anything anywhere).  If you can't stop them, can you please add more aa guns or make the aa guns stronger so they don't blow up so easy.  Thanks

[Colonel Tavington]

Some heat-seeking surface to air missiles should solve the problem.

[CA1]

I would love that......give me the SAM site next to the barn.  

 

[Clarence]

Joysticking Lovecatt is doing this right now, as he always does. If there's one player ruining this game and driving people away it's him.

[FlameHaze]

Joysticking Lovecatt is doing this right now, as he always does. If there's one player ruining this game and driving people away it's him.

 

Now I appreciate that when teams aren't skill balanced, it sucks to get pummeled.  But you should suck it up, happens to everyone in every online team game, this thread has a whiff of "Karen" to it.

The issue as I understand it is that LoveCat is a good player who specializes in flying. And you want the Admins to do what exactly?

Ruin the game for those that like flying because you are bad at it / got stuck in an unbalanced match?

 

How is that any different than me saying this:

I'm horrible at infantry combat, we had a match and an amazing player with a tag "mustafa or something like that" had 80 kills, totally dominated in the match and on two occasions faced us 5 v 1 taking us all down.

Therefore you would want him to be forced to play as sniper 1/2 the time?  Or let's insert tanks to help deal with him? This argument is identical to yours and equally invalid attempting to gain an unfair advantage.

 

Skilled players like LoveCat also dislike when skills level of the teams isn't balanced teams, it's boring to just pick of random enemies leaving uncap.

When he and I play together we make sure we are on different teams as we enjoy battling each other.

Having said that I used to admin another server for about a decade.  What we used to do on occasion is politely ask one of the top players on the other team to switch sides and help, and usually they would. 

Obviously I can't say that Admins will be okay with this, but if they are give that a shot, but remember it's not always possible to switch teams on MoonGamers.

[FlameHaze]

BTW 40 kills in a match is pretty common, here's a recent Screenshot from Bocage with 5 people over 40 kills.

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[FriendlyNoob]

Politics and game patches have favored plane whoring for a long time. No mining planes, no zooking on take off, no stealing even if they land outside the base, etc. Additionally a patch lowered damage to planes.

Tactics to counter planes:
1. All guns even pistol hurt planes. Shoot ahead of whatever direction they are ahead. If they are going down you have to aim below. If they are going up aim higher.Let them close the distance between your sights and when the sights indicate a hit maintain that distance. The farther away the more you will need to lead them. All bullets have travel time. It's easiest to hit them when they are climbing.

2. Don't sit in AA unless it just spawned. They pilots can see when it's occupied and cloud bomb you. AA can't air straight up.

3. Machine gun on apc is good.

4. Zoom and you can see planes before they see you.

5. AA aim way ahead unless close AA rounds have a long travel time.

6. For b17 I'm not sure if indirect AA hits hurt it or not.

[FriendlyNoob]

Most of all when you shoot down a pilot and he bails hunt that guy down. Rarely is a great pilot as great at infantry.

For example twilight was probably the best pilot this game ever saw. But outside his tin flying machine you could get him easily.

[Colonel Tavington]

Excellent suggestions, yes if you're on the ground and have the opportunity, let go at the enemy planes with whatever you have when you see them.  Even if you don't shoot them down, the more damage they take the more they will be careful and will have to waste time and opportunities (of bombing and strafing your tanks, vehicles and infantry) by having to be careful or be easily shot down.

 

The good news is that some players are already "aa specialists" and you have to be very careful in flying in their area and even in attacking them, and some players are also being very creative in the use of the apc as a mobile anti-aircraft weapon and "hiding" it.

 

More sniping into the enemy af is also an option to pick them off while heading for the plane.

 

From flying the B-17 I think it does take indirect damage, but the beast (bless its heart) can take a lot of abuse, so it may not seem like its taking damage.

[FlameHaze]

Most of all when you shoot down a pilot and he bails hunt that guy down. Rarely is a great pilot as great at infantry.

For example twilight was probably the best pilot this game ever saw. But outside his tin flying machine you could get him easily.

 

The best pilot I remember was Jagzed, he was a commercial airline captain and an ex-fighter pilot. He wrecked me for years and I just couldn't do anything about it.

 

You are absolutely right that pilots don't make great infantry, but let's imagine this hypothetical person you describe that dual skilled.

Would you consider him a pilot who's great at infantry or infantry that's great at flying?  People tend to play what they are good at, especially in a game with classes where you determine your style of play pre-spawn.

Not easy to use a vehicle without repair tool as assault, equally difficult to fight with a bolt action rifle against a machine gun.

[Herbie the Love Bug]

What if a plane’s hit points were altered so they are as tough as a French tank?

[CA1]

I love most of the suggestions to help even out this game.  Is it possible for Moonie to program it so when a pilot reaches 25 kills he/she can not get into another plane until the map is over?  This would make it much more fair and enjoyable and would make it so I don't have to interact with Admin's which I am sure they would love.  Win Win for everyone. 

By the way...the best pilot hands down was Alacard.  Just saying.  

[Wasabi®]

The '25 plane kills' rule is at admin discretion. If an admin thinks the team with the pilot needs the pilot to prevent a steamroll, they have the ability to let the pilot keep flying. Alternatively, an admin may allow a pilot to switch to the other team if they are losing badly.

[mistamontiel]

Man I can't find Alacard on YT now!

[FlameHaze]

Politics and game patches have favored plane whoring for a long time. No mining planes, no zooking on take off, no stealing even if they land outside the base, etc. Additionally a patch lowered damage to planes.

FriendlyNoob,

 

Your dislike for planes is clouding your judgement.  Moon is in fact the exact opposite of what you claim, pursuing a multifaceted set of rules and MODs that combat plane whoring, placing more and most severe restrictions on planes of any server I know. 

Even the rules you listed as favoring plane whoring are in fact designed to stop plane whoring.  

 

I think you just get annoyed by enemy planes and falling victim to the "HERO of your own story" reasoning.  Thus you picture "You - The HERO getting revenge, eliminating those pesky planes on the ground, stealing enemy planes etc." 

However if you follow your argument through all the way and consider that these rules apply to both teams. You might realize what removing these rules will be like for your team if the enemy HERO does what you are thinking of doing.

 

These are my counter arguments:

1. "No mining planes, no zooking on take off," - The fact that you consider this to be a plane rule at all, shows your bias.  These rules apply to all uncap vehicles, protecting them until they are capable of entering combat and planes have no special protections.

Obviously if the enemy is plane whoring you and your team's pilots can't get off the ground, that is more plane whoring not less. 

 

2. "No stealing even if they land outside the base." - Similar to #1, can't steal other vehicles in uncap.  Outside of base planes are protected to stop one team having 3-4 planes vs 0-1 on the other team.  Which again is more plane whoring not less.

 

3. "Additionally a patch lowered damage to planes." - I actually had to look this up, boy are you salty.  That was 20 years ago in Sep 2006, back when Dice was still balancing the game.  There were good reasons for this if you recall what used to happen in the early days.

You also forgot that planes used to be repaired by flying over airfield / carrier and Engi single repair bar was enough to repair the plane to full health from nothing.

Were Tanks favored by reducing grenade damage by 40%, M10 splash damage lowered and Tiger getting 25% more health?

 

 

Now let's look at all the server specific MODs on MOON to gimp the planes.

1. Planes are unable to reload bombs and once initial ammo is expanded must be ditched for a respawn.

2. Maps now have tons of additional AA / MG guns all over the place, each of which is capable of destroying a plane in 1 fly by / dive bombing run.  If you actually fight the planes rather than ignore them, it's not that hard.

3. AA / MG guns are adjusted to respawn significantly faster.

4. MG guns in UNCAPS both stationary and tank mounted are guaranteed a win or a draw against a plane, planes cannot defend themselves and if they destroy the attacker in uncap MoonBot would kill them back.

5. Admins can enforce 25 kill limit and force a pilot to play ground, at their discretion.

 

Lastly if planes are indeed so overpowered, how come such a small fraction of the players using them effectively?  Why won't you use this overpowered weapon?

 

Planes aren't flying unstoppable tanks, they are similar to playing as a sniper.  It's very situational, they are both extremely strong and extremely weak depending on circumstances.

Just like a sniper, they cause great damage if ignore them, but if you actually fight them and take the time it takes to find / attack them they are done for.  Worst case they'll retreat into the clouds and basically be neutralized.

[CA1]

Wasabi...I know it is up to the admin's discretion.  I was just making a suggestion so admin doesn't have to make this decision and by the way...this happens a lot more when admin is not on at the time.  I was hoping to just help the game be more competitive for those of us that don't like the really good pilots to totally dominate the maps.  

[Colonel Tavington]

Politics and game patches have favored plane whoring for a long time. No mining planes, no zooking on take off, no stealing even if they land outside the base, etc. Additionally a patch lowered damage to planes.

Tactics to counter planes:
1. All guns even pistol hurt planes. Shoot ahead of whatever direction they are ahead. If they are going down you have to aim below. If they are going up aim higher.Let them close the distance between your sights and when the sights indicate a hit maintain that distance. The farther away the more you will need to lead them. All bullets have travel time. It's easiest to hit them when they are climbing.

2. Don't sit in AA unless it just spawned. They pilots can see when it's occupied and cloud bomb you. AA can't air straight up.

3. Machine gun on apc is good.

4. Zoom and you can see planes before they see you.

5. AA aim way ahead unless close AA rounds have a long travel time.

6. For b17 I'm not sure if indirect AA hits hurt it or not.

 

Friendlynoob, I've increased my lead time with the AA since first reading this and have been getting better results.  Thanks for the tip! Also, I've been working on anticipating which way the plane will turn when they start evading and laying the AA bursts in that path for them to fly in to.

[CA1]

Leading works for me big time.  I am not good at much in this game...but I do AA well.

 

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

 

CA1

[FlameHaze]

Leading works for me big time.  I am not good at much in this game...but I do AA well.

 

Thanks for the discussion everyone.

 

CA1

 

It's great that you took this discussion into a positive direction and decided to improve rather than punish others.  

You will soon see that planes are glass cannons easy to down, the most effective tactic is attacking a plane in a dog fight, leaving it with a choice to stay and die from AA or to run and die from the the plane.

 

This is how Battlefield WIKI describes BF109:

 

As with other fighter aircraft, the Bf 109 main role is mostly to support ground troops and to hunt enemy fighters and bombers. Its machine guns are very effective against lighter targets, such as aircraft and cars, and its single bomb can aid greatly in destroying enemy armor.

A bomb is also efficient against emplacements, as a single well-placed bomb can destroy any anti-aircraft gun, defgun or heavy machine gun position. The Bf 109 is especially fast and maneuverable, which makes it the optimal choice for dogfighting compared to other allied craft.

The Bf 109 prime weakness is its weak armor. Anti-aircraft guns rip through it in just a few shots. The Bf 109 requires a certain degree of skill to use effectively.